The VFX Artists Podcast
The VFX Artists Podcast
In conversation with VFX Executive @ Amazon, Desiree Ryden | TVAP EP64
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this conversation with Desiree, a VFX executive at Amazon MGM Studios, we speak about her journey from FX artist to industry expert, insights into VFX production, vendor management, and industry trends including AI and industry shifts post-COVID and the strikes.
Topics covered:
- Career progression in VFX from artist to executive.
- Vendor selection and management in VFX projects.
- Impact of AI and industry shifts on VFX workflows.
- A day in the life of...
- Experience as a working mother in the industry.
Links:
Thank you for your support!
I don't want to say AI. I mean AI is a big part. Who knows what will happen and when, but it is accelerating. Amazon is definitely pushing for AI. What that translates down to us is we are definitely doing our research and trying to understand what's going on, what's available, understand what vendors are using right now. That's something that we ask. Whenever we talk to a new vendor, we ask them like, how do you incorporate AI? Like just to get an understanding of what's happening. And in general, it seems like it's it's something that's become part of many processes, but it's not replaced a process yet. Because I think many are trying to be quite cautious and not build on something that is not going to be sustainable for a long time, which I think is very reasonable. And I have to say, from our side, we're not pushing anyone to use AI, it's just more of a fact-finding mission.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to the VFX Artists Podcast. I'm your host, Arpita, and a warm welcome to our guest today, Desiree Raiden. Desiree is a VFX executive at Amazon MGM Studios where she oversees all VFX for German and Nordic productions. Prior to that, she was an FX artist, starting off at MPC, ILM, Cinecite, and then back at MPC, where she contributed to the Oscar-winning Jungle Book and then rejoined ILM to tick the Star Wars box rogue one. 2018 is when she made the career shift to the production side, starting off as a production coordinator and climbing all the way until where she is today, which is an executive at one of the industry's leading studios. Originally hailing from Sweden, Desiree is also a horror enthusiast, mother of two, and currently embracing the challenge of learning French. Welcome, welcome. So, Desiree, that seems like quite a journey. Hailing from Are you from a big town in Sweden? Where are you from?
SPEAKER_00No, no, I grew up in a very small countryside town outside the town in a little village. Um, but being there, I just watched TV and movies all the time on repeat. I recorded it, I had a like a video library. So I don't know, from a very young age, I'm like, I'm gonna work in TV and movies. Like that's it. So I think yeah, it kind of tracks, even though I didn't think it would take this route to get here. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, nice. And usually kids growing up have crazy goals and visions. So it's it's it's nice to hear that you're one of those kids who knew what they wanted to do right from when they were young.
SPEAKER_00Well, I did want to be the director though, which was very ambitious, yes. And then when you start to understand a bit more about filmmaking, like you know, I'm not a person who could be a director for sure. Um, and then that's I mean, I I I went to um uh I studied film, kind of very general film studies, and then I moved to London because I wanted to learn the language, I wanted to be fluent in English, and I moved here without a plan. But I had a friend who kind of helped me out and helped me get a job at a notary firm, which was so incredibly boring. It was like soul sucking. So I realized, no, I can't do this, I have to, I have to find something I want to do. And um at that point, I realized I can't just spend five years uh just studying something. I have to I have to do something where I can get a job at the end of it, and it doesn't take too long. So I started looking into like, okay, what what what can I do in film and TV? And it's like, oh, the FX. And uh and yeah, I stumbled upon this education in Sweden that was like two years, and you come out with a showreel. I'm like, okay, well, let's try that. And uh I got started, and uh I don't know, for some reason I thought effects was really cool. I don't know if it was the white move, it was very specific, everyone was very surprised. But I thought, now this is just so cool, I can just create anything, and it's like simulated, it has a life, you know. And um, and yeah, and I got into that. Uh I moved back to London. Um, I had to do some other jobs because it wasn't easy to just get into the industry. Uh, but then I did get into uh NPC where I met Geo Arpita, which was uh it was very it was back in the good days, I think. Yeah, I think we were like we were 60 people in the effects department, right? Yeah, back then. It was yeah, it was a big group. It was good.
SPEAKER_03And uh you made the switch as well from from the artist side to production side, just curious to know what led to that, and yeah, how did you find that transition?
SPEAKER_00I don't know, too many crash simulations, too many, too many things that didn't work for no reason. And after seven years of that, um and also I mean when when we're at MPC, I I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed working with Flowline, the tool we had. Um, and then Houdini was definitely the thing that was happening. So when I moved to ILM, I was also learning Houdini at the time, which was um it was it was a great experience, and Houdini is an amazing tool, but it is a very steep learning curve. Uh fortunately, I had really good people around me, like Pete Kaim was was the lead, so he was really helpful getting me across the line. But um, but yeah, no, I you know, you have to be have such a passion for VFX to be an artist, I think, yeah, especially at that level. And I felt like I this is not where I want to retire. I think I have other things to give. So I uh I just wanted to cast the night wet um the uh net really wide, and uh I thought I'm gonna go into marketing. Nice, which is just like a crazy idea. I started studying online, which was very interesting, but then I realized no, it's it's just not gonna work. So I thought I'll just go over to the dark side and go to production and see how that goes. And um, I was at ILM at the time, and um I considered moving over there, but then I don't know, going going over it in my mind, having some other options. Um, I decided to go with a company called Goodbye Kansas, which is a smaller company. They are from Sweden. Yeah, I I did not know about them at the time, uh being Swedish though. And it was the London office that I joined, but it was um it's a smaller company, but the good thing with joining production and small company is that I got to be a part of everything. Like I was part uh I worked in every department as a coordinator. I got to learn about you know match move, like all those things that I you wouldn't really necessarily try to like get into too much in FX. And um, and yeah, so uh kind of stunted from the ground up and uh learning a bit of everything, and I really enjoyed it. Like it really worked well with my with my skill set and type of person I was, and also having been an artist, it was like it was just so easy to understand what the artists were talking about, right? When they said, like, oh, I have an issue or this is not gonna deliver, and then like, okay, I see, I see exactly what's going on, we'll figure it out. So I think that it built a lot of trust with the with the artist I was working with. And um, no, it was it was really enjoyable.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and now, as in the role that you perform today, what is what does a typical day look like?
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's a tricky thing. Um, every day you feel so different, which I really love. Um, the every part of the project life cycle can be so different because we're really from the very beginning to the very end. And part that's part of why I love my job because like I wanted to get into the industry because I loved film and television. And now I get to read scripts, which is like it's it's the beginning of an idea. It's like the exciting part, like this could be something amazing. So I get to be there, I read the scripts, um, and I I kind of look at it from the VFX point of view. So um thinking about shooting methodology, budgets, um, giving my thoughts alongside my colleagues, like production, post, music, everyone. And then we all get together, uh, we discuss it, we decide does it go ahead or does it not go ahead, leadership gets involved, and um, and then throughout the project, it's my job to kind of make sure that it delivers on quality, it delivers on time, and to budget. That's basically that's what I do here. Then that can look so different from project to project, depending on um not so much the size of it, a smaller project can be more time consuming than a bigger project. But um, but yeah, no, that's that's kind of it. And then uh another big part is like the creative reviews. So when we get to the VFX part of it, I have to make sure that our creative executive is happy with the VFX. And you know, understandably they might not have a lot of VFX knowledge, so it's up to me to kind of translate their thoughts into productive feedback. Um, make sure I, if possible, I can get every voice in the room at the same time. So our creative and the director, uh, DOP if needed, editor, producers, anyone who needs to have a say, just to make sure they're all in the room at the same time, discussing everything. We come to a very specific feedback resolution for the vendor. Because having been on that side of it, you don't want to have like three rounds of feedback, and then the studio comes in at the last time, like, oh, actually, can we just change that thing? I think I've seen that a little too often. I know, I know. I'm trying to fight it, don't worry. That can be very different. Um, and there's a lot of internal, you know, projects and mechanisms that we deal with trying to trying to make the whole process much smoother for everyone whether we work with. So no, it's very varied, which is very exciting.
SPEAKER_03That sounds like a that that does sound like a really wide net and a huge remit as well, and also quite satisfying because your day won't look the same every day. You've got yes, there'll be some new challenge or the other coming at you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. And the thing I missed though, I think the most is that I I don't feel the same kind of ownership of a project that like, yes, I worked on that, I made it happen. It's more like I helped it happen, but I don't feel like I have that direct um impact.
SPEAKER_03But I feel like you'd being in this position that you just mentioned everything that you do, you do have the uh, you know, you you can s help steer the project gently in one way or the other at every step of the process, which can make a big impact on a vendor on who spent a lot of time working on something or a studio. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, no, it's it's true.
SPEAKER_00It's like behind the scenes. I work my match.
SPEAKER_03Because there's also quite a few stakeholders that you just mentioned. What was the dynamics? Like what goes on behind when you see the work from the studio and is there a chain of order in which somebody has more of a say or somebody had less of the say? And it seems like you're sort of the moderator who kind of uh presents a unified idea to the vendor.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, so yeah, exactly. So when it comes to the effects, yes, that that would kind of be on me. Um, but I need to take into account all the other voices, so creative have their creative say, of course. Um, production is the one who's kind of dealing with the shooting and the budget, and I need to make sure that everything works with that. And post-production, you know, it all it's all about the schedule at that point, right? So um getting everyone to to kind of agree on the plan from a VFX point of view, and then making sure that the vendor is happy with it and they can do it. And if there were any problems, we figure out the solutions together. Um, which could be like, oh, if there's two, like all of a sudden the shock count went up double. What do we do? Like, okay, we have a very good vendor we worked with before, it's not gonna affect the budget too much. Let's bring that in, let's see how it fits. So, yeah, it needs to be needs to be have many creative solutions. I think every project has its own unique problem so far for me. Um, having been in the industry for three years now, I think there's still always something new that comes up because there's always a new variable in every project. But that's what makes it interesting as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. And I mean, nowadays we can see budgets are getting skinnier and the work isn't getting any easier. So, what goes on behind the scenes when deciding like, do you actually raise a flag when saying, no, this budget actually looks too low? When you send a breakdown out to a vendor, so just to get the semantics right in in this conversation, we're gonna talk about studio, which is the houses, and we're talking about vendors as the VFX studios, right? Yeah, so exactly. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00So I'm I'm studio and I'm talking to vendors. Sorry, yeah, I wanted to clarify that.
SPEAKER_03Cool. So um, with when when a vendor gets a breakdown and we're like, clearly, this is not gonna fit in the budget. So is there some level of like sanity checking that happens before it goes out? And like um, yeah, have you ever sent out a bit thinking no way this is gonna happen, but let's just give it this ago?
SPEAKER_00Well, no, we haven't really got to that part because it's such a long process, right? So even before the project is greenlit, which means like, okay, it's officially going ahead, we need to make sure that what we want to do with VFX fits with the budget because we I mean there's always a bit of room, but ideally not. So if we have a very complex uh type of work or something that we can't really estimate too easily, we would try to bid it out before going to green lights. And not with not giving a number, just say like, what how much do you think you would cost and how long do you think it takes? And then that will be kind of our the the ground that we work from, where we send out to three separate vendors, and and usually between those three we get an idea, a realistic idea of what what it would take. And then when we do get to the point of actually giving the workouts, then hopefully it shouldn't be too much of a difference. Yeah. Apart from the fact that usually when we shoot and then when we're done, uh the shock count always goes up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, oh almost always. And like we don't have more time or more money, okay. What do we do? But uh yeah, again, it's uh it's it's very interesting. Challenge.
SPEAKER_03Do you see, do you see like practices changing now nowadays? Like, you know, is there some way that the studios are getting together and seeing, right, like how can we, how can we calibrate this a bit? How can we put like vendors on the lesser duress? Because there is like we need to join hands rather than colliding. We need to actually be joining hands to try and see how we can improve the state of the industry. So I just wanted to hear from your side do you hear of any practices or any things that are happening?
SPEAKER_00Um, I can't say anything from other studios. I uh there is not a lot of kind of official communications happening between studios as far as I know. I'm not part of those conversations, at least. Um, and also many studios work so differently.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So, but I think from from our point of view, um, everyone I work with in our VFX department, everyone has some kind of background with vendors. So everyone is very protective of vendors, and we see that we we need to kind of be the barrier between anyone else and the vendors to make sure that they don't get too much, like you said, too much pressure or um unrealistic circumstances that they work with and that we don't lowball too much on the budgets, like all those things. Yeah, but that's that's not so much of a specific workflow more than it's just how we want to work.
SPEAKER_03And when you have your breakdown ready and you know, okay, there's a green light here. What is your process of looking which which vendor to partner with, and what are the green flags and what are the red flags? So uh could you walk me through your process?
SPEAKER_00So, I mean, like you said, budgets are getting a bit slimmer nowadays. And um the the projects that I work on, uh it's a bit of a mix. Um, and the Nordics and Germany. Germany has quite a lot of success with some of their uh the Amazon shows so far, so they have healthier budgets, uh maybe in general. Um but uh a lot of the cases they are looking for savings everywhere, and um right now uh there's um there are so many good tax breaks around Europe. So one part could be that we are looking to go outside to go to, I mean, for example, Lithuania has a 30% tax break, so all of a sudden you can engage with a vendor there that has the same quality as in Germany, where you get 30% less. Not that they get 30% less, but we get money back. So that is one part, but um, that's not something really that a vendor can affect too much where they're located. Um when it comes to red flags and green flags. Um if we have a good working relationship with a vendor, we definitely go back to them, I have to say. And a lot of that comes down to communication. Uh, I think communication is the most important um for the bad stuff as well as the good. Um if if um if a project is not going to plan, if the schedule is getting pushed, if there's not enough money to get anything done, we we need to have an open conversation about it. And because otherwise it would be very difficult to solve it and it would just kind of roll to the end, and then it will be a bigger problem. So I think that's that's kind of the most um critical thing. Um, I would have to say, like so many vendors that I've talked to and that I worked with, quality is usually never an issue, it all comes down to the circumstances that they work, right?
SPEAKER_01That's really true.
SPEAKER_00And for us, having had that experience, we know that's true. Like we can do an amazing job if we had all the resources. Um, so it's just a matter of making sure that you put them in that position. Um, I think I mean as a vendor, just you know, reach out. I get so many cold calls, uh, emails, and uh, if it's something that could be relevant, I I like to have um like um a call, an intro call, 30 minutes like, okay, who are you? Do you want to show what you're doing? What's your vision? Where do you want to get to? What kind of work do you do? And you know, we had many successful um vendors in that way. So I'd say, you know, try to find a find a connection, reach out, and you do a call. Worst case scenario, um, we we put them on um our vendor database, which we share globally, and then maybe not much comes from it directly, but uh it's it's at least the first step.
SPEAKER_03And are there times when you've shortlisted a vendor, maybe it doesn't work out for you know the Germany Nordic sector because of whatever reason, and do they get handed over then to the other regions perhaps to get because a good vendor is a good vendor, and and I'm sure like a studio would love to take a chance on them if you know, despite the tax breaks not matching, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, no, definitely we do share a lot of vendors. We have a a German production now that is currently bidding in uh Spain and France, Lithuania, Germany, just because we do have that network of vendors that we know are good. And it doesn't really matter where where they're based, right? As long as it's the right people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's true. I've I've I've noticed that a lot. And and you're finding that a lot of because right now there are like four or five big players, like maybe like, yeah, four big players, and then you have a few mid-sized studios, and then there are a whole lot of small studios that have popped up. So um in terms of your preference to work with a big studio versus mid-size and small studios, and also sometimes just directly connecting with freelancers, because I've also seen that happen quite often. Um, is there any kind of like what is the barometer for like seeing what scale you want to go with?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's difficult to say. It really depends on the project and the budget. Uh so personally, I don't deal too much with the the very big vendors, like for example, I I don't have the money for D-Nake. That's more the US shows. And um I mean, I uh yeah, I don't know. I think um it's it really depends. And also it's it's not us directly hiring a vendor. So the way we work is that we um we work with a production company, so we kind of we own the project, we manage it, but the production company is the one who carries it out, and they are the ones who who decide uh on the vendors. So what we do from our side is if they might want to have people they already worked with, and then we would just check them out. If we haven't worked with them before, we just check, okay, yeah, they seem they seem good. Uh they we put them through a security process and and then we're good to go. But sometimes they're not really sure what they want. So we would maybe give them a list of three to four vendors, like, okay, these seem to be kind of within the range of your project when it comes to time and and money. And um and that's kind of where it would uh go.
SPEAKER_03Right. So just for the sake of our listeners who may not be fan, who is the so it's it's is the vendors, it's you representing Amazon Studios, and who is the third party here?
SPEAKER_00So yeah, so it's a production company. So uh so usually the you it would be, I think most of the time, a production company, they have a script. Or they have a talent or they have an IP and they want to make it, but they need money. So they come to Amazon and say, like, look, we have this, uh, we think it would be really interesting. Um, but we want you to make it. We will make it, but um we need money, and um, you know, this kind of the the the creative and the the leadership. So so they would give us the creative material, and then our creatives will look through it, they would give notes, they would work together with the production company and kind of together come to like okay, what is it final gonna look like? And then the same would be with production, our production executive would work with their producers, like, okay, are we good with the budget? Uh, is the timing working out? Um, and then post and me VFX, I would talk to well, it usually on my kind of projects, they don't really have um a dedicated VFX person. So I would talk to the line producer, the producer, a bit of you know, everyone. And um, and then it would be kind of a collaboration. I think, I mean, technically, it would be an Amazon-owned project, but we don't want to go in and just dictate because that would not lead to a good project, right? Everyone has a voice, so it's more of like how do we how do we make this happen together? So that's kind of the role. So the studio has kind of that oversight, uh, but the production company is carrying it out.
SPEAKER_03So the the production company is always on the bus.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, so we are the studio, and the production company can be anyone. Like um, we worked, so I just know the names of a few German ones now that comes to mind. But uh no, there are so many production companies uh that we work with of varying sizes, and um, and yeah, they're the ones who will kind of reach out to the vendors and kind of set everything up while we are overseeing that like, okay, you got a vendor on board? Okay, great. Is that vendor okay, security-approved? Okay, great. So it's a lot about ticking boxes sometimes. Um, if they know what they're doing and they're very comfortable with the VFX, then I don't have to do much more than at the end when I need to make sure our creative is happy with what they're seeing, the quality is there, and you know, deal with any issues. But but up until that point, um, that can be very hands-off.
SPEAKER_03Just going back a couple of years, and also it's like I think this topic never kind of gets boring for anyone, but the strikes that happened two years ago, being part of the studio, you're on the other side of the fence, and you were watching all the events unfold on you know for the vendors. Uh, yeah, what was going through your mind and like everyone's mind on on the other side of the fence? I'm just curious to know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I mean, first of all, I was a maternity leave at the time, so I didn't get all the inside chats, unfortunately. Um, but I, you know, of course, coming from vendor side, artist side, I I knew it was it was uh very difficult and that it would take a very long time. I mean, it's we still feel it still now, if after everything. Um I mean the official studio stance, I mean I know as much as anyone, I don't have any kind of insider information. I don't think anyone was asked to be part of that conversation. Um it seemed very kind of business focused. But um from our point of view in the the effects department, it was it was it's it was very difficult because we have so many vendors reach out to us and and and just say like we'll you know, we'll take anything basically because we want to keep our people and not having anything to give them and not being able to make any promises because we didn't really know what was happening. It was it was a very difficult time, definitely. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03So just going back even further, when COVID happened, just before COVID happened, nobody even thought of working remotely, you know, that was not even a thing in the industry. And then COVID happened and now it's sort of like the norm. And I think when the strikes happened, that was another big shift in the industry as to how vendors need to constantly watch their back. And this whole concept of before you had a company, you had a strong core team, you had a big team, and everyone was on permanent contracts, and you would just feel like you belonged somewhere. This whole company jumping wasn't a trend. And I feel like since 2023, 2024, everyone's just like in such a state of worry, like, okay, well, I have this role now. Is it gonna exist tomorrow? Is this company gonna exist tomorrow even? So I'm just and and that has become the you know, a status quo in the industry, and it's really sad to see. I'm just wondering from your viewpoint, from your perch, like what do you where do you see the industry going? And um do you see anything else shifting in the coming years, especially considering these uh the deals have been signed for three years and there could be something else happening pretty soon. So yeah, I just wanted to hear your thoughts as well.
SPEAKER_00Um I think from from what I see right now uh in the industry, I think a lot of vendors are shifting. Like you said, it's it's not the same type of workplace anymore. A lot of vendors are focusing on be being very agile, and I think um part of that is not having this huge massive office, right? Because right now that's that's not a good thing. You can work from home, and that's that's easier if you need to scale up or scale down, and um and also not having many more artists are generalists nowadays, I think. Yeah, and I think that's part of that agility to be able to shift people around easier, and you hire someone for for a job, but then maybe things change quickly. So having a generalist might be more of an asset. So that's one part of it. Um, where things are going in the future. I don't want to say AI, but I mean AI is uh is a big part. Who who knows what will happen and when, but it is accelerating. Um, Amazon is definitely pushing for AI. What that translates down to us is we are definitely doing our research and trying to understand what's going on, what's available, understand what vendors are using right now. That's something that we ask whenever we talk to a new vendor, we ask them like, how do you incorporate AI? Like just to get an understanding of what's happening. Um, and in general, it seems like it's it's something that's become part of many processes, but it's not replaced a process yet. Because I think many are trying to be quite cautious and not build on something that is not going to be sustainable for a long time, which I think is very reasonable. And I have to say, from our side, we're not pushing anyone to use AI, it's just more of a fact-finding mission at the time at this point.
SPEAKER_03I mean, yeah, um, because uh if if the budgets are actually getting skinnier, like we we spoke about a couple of times, then if AI is that one deciding factor that kind of saves time. So do you feel like a studio is actually better off incorporating that in order to match this? Because two other studios that use AI and are able to do the work in like say 70% of the time, versus somebody who is equally hardworking, equally earnest, but offers you know high numbers, uh obviously you're gonna go with the other two, right?
SPEAKER_00Uh you know, if if those are the only differing variables, then of course we're looking to, you know, if if we have a budget that we need to take down, uh then we would need to go with a cheaper option. Yeah. But if we feel like the the more expensive approach is more reliable, that has a lot of value as well. That's because I I think, especially with the AI, um, because it's so new, if someone comes to us and they're like, look, we can do this job for 30% of the money, we're using this new groundbreaking technology. I think we would be quite wary and really try to understand how is this built up? Uh, is it going to deliver? Um, have you used this before? That and because it's yeah, it's it's it's easy to get swept up with all the promises.
SPEAKER_03And there's also not much of it's it's quite unregulated and loose right now as well, right? So from a security viewpoint as well, when doing your due diligence, you want to make sure that this tool that they're using, the the data that they're using is all like fits within the remote.
SPEAKER_00Yes. No, we have we've we've had several projects show us super promising things, but then it just gets stuck on the legal side. Like, no, you can't use that footage, or that tool has not been approved. Uh, but that's a discussion that is is is coming up more and more now, and we have like a dedicated legal uh person who's looking into all those things for us and making a list of all the tools that are approved so we can check before engaging a vendor, like which tool are you using for this and that. It's just yeah, it's a it's a huge uh topic for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It is, it is. And and I've also felt like studios are better off, you know, adopting it and trying to see how they can fit it in rather than lose out on opportunities because you haven't even exploded. And I don't think this is gonna replace anyone because at the end of the day, the human eye is what kind of knows what looks right, what doesn't, and what behaves well. And uh and we're also like the human eye is also so sensitive to quirks, and and quirks is one of the things that AI just loses with, because you know that um so um I do think but but I've seen I've personally seen it add so much value to save it's sort of like instead of instead of just mopping the floor, you have something that does it for you so you can spend your time doing something else which is more interesting, like you know. So I I see I see how it can add value to people's lives, but yeah, to how far you take it is I think subject to you know the the task at hand and like how reliable it is and how consistent it is and how much control it can give the artist and a supervisor, because that's something that people always worry about. AI is like how much control, and control is something that everybody wants in when when doing this. So uh pivoting slightly to you know the people and personal side of things, because that's something I really enjoyed talking about as well. Um, being a working mom in the industry, like how have you like how has your how have you felt your journey been uh after becoming a mom?
SPEAKER_00Uh well I I it's it's so different from those before me because I had my first child, um it was just after COVID. So working from home was uh when I came back from maternity leave, that was a norm, which I know I don't understand how people did it before that. I it really, I I don't know. I'm I'm baffled because it just it might not be very time consuming, but just having that flexibility of being in certain places at certain times, right? Um I think I always had really good flexibility from the places I worked with. Uh so at the time, I mean it was from the studio's point of view, um, the whole process was quite simple. I think I think when it comes to those things, they have it very well set up because it's something that is a recurring thing, right? Um I had very good support from my team and my colleagues. Um, so I I was in a very fortunate position, really, with the whole um the whole that side of things. And then I mean coming back to work, I can work from home. Um, I work from home three days a week, technically, but I I actually prefer to go into work nowadays because I can just focus better. Um, but my hours are very flexible as well. Like I can I can start at you know 7 a.m. and finish at 9 p.m. But that allows me time to like spend time with my family during breakfast or um often like nursery pickup, doing making dinner and all those things. So far it's been working out really well. Uh my oldest is gonna start school in September, so it's a whole thing of um homework and picking up at 4 p.m. So let's see. But no, so far it's been very good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's that's good to hear. I'm many women tend to hesitate taking that step because of how they feel it will impact their career, their progress, because it's a year away, and how much changes in one year in this industry is crazy. So and um yeah, so what is your advice for somebody who's looking to start a family? My god, that's a big question.
SPEAKER_00Um, I mean, I would say, but then again, I had such a good experience, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask, but I would say priority is your family. I don't think priority is is really should be your work unless you really love your job and you're super invested in it. But that's another question. But I I mean I always prioritize my family. I I am very ambitious and hardworking, but when it comes to it, uh my family's priority, and I think I think that's what you need to look at. Like my job is job can change, but family is always there. So I my advice would try to make it work, but like I said, I'm in a fortunate position to have made it work so far. You really get tested, like you're standing in the kitchen, you have one baby crying, you have the other boys screaming for watching something, and um, you know, it's just complete chaos, and you just have to find you know the space to be like, okay, now I need to do this, and now I need to do that. And if you can do that, you can do anything, like going to work, that's my that's my time off almost. Because you do you do get a sense of and also you get a sense of priority. Like, I think I I still find my job really important, but in relation to the family side of things, um, you you do get perspective, so it doesn't get to you in the same way, it doesn't stress me like it used to stress me because I I I have a bit more emotional distance to it, which I think is healthy. Perspective, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Exactly. And uh from people's point of view as well, are there because you just mentioned how many different circumstances and scenarios you deal with on a daily basis? What is that one kind of soft skill? Uh, because I feel in this industry people focus too much on hard skills and technical skills and uh or subject matter expertise, but what is that, you know, a key soft skill or a lesson that you've learned which you find helps you repeatedly in many, many situations? Oh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm not sure. I mean learning how to interact with people, I think, is is just really important because I interact with so many different types of people now. Being in just purely VFX, working with you know VFX artists or producers, it's it's it's a bit of a bubble. Uh and I think it's a very good it's like coming out and and being on this level, you talk to people in so many different levels and different uh areas that need to be a bit of a chameleon, maybe and and listen a lot and and try to adjust. And I think that that skill is something I'm still working on. But uh it's very valuable. And I would say if if you are in VFX and you're looking to move somewhere else, I think the key is to like try to break out of the bubble.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. I feel sometimes we're so absorbed in our own little like, oh, this is my task, this is my shot, this is my sequence, and you just even just even just thinking, you know, big picture, zooming out a bit helps so much. And yeah, and so true. And and we're all humans, we're not islands at the end of the day. So building taking that time to build your communication skills, like uh understanding the other person, what they want, what they actually want, you know, when they're asking you something, rather what you think they want and and delivering that.
SPEAKER_00So I yeah, it's yeah, and and I would tell to anyone who likes to work from home that like don't work from home too much because like that face-to-face time is it's uh really important.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, um I've I've been in this position before where we've you know, as a as a VFX studio, we're always at this crossroads, like, oh, we want to build a culture, so we want people to come in, but you also want to acknowledge that people have moved outside, you know, outside of London, outside England, some living in Scotland and in uh Ireland, because just for this proper like work-life balance. And I actually personally have noticed them, some of them being even more productive than those who are actually in the office, but it is important, and I think this remote working also works to an extent because people had that connection before COVID. Yes, um exactly.
SPEAKER_00We're lucky because we already established everything coming in as a junior now. It it's you you're relying on some people. Like I definitely agree with the work life balance and like having time from home, like at home. But uh, but yeah, having that face-to-face time, it's yeah, it's very difficult for people nowadays.
SPEAKER_03No, it's it's absolutely. And uh I do feel for people entering the industry, you know, they don't have those seniors around them for the peer learning experience that you know you and I had when we we started off as juniors. Um and it it does kind of help with the it those are also what give you the memories, right? Because otherwise you're kind of sleeping away on your own at your monitor, at your desk, and just exactly uh everything is seen through this like screen and that kind of energy exchange uh is kind of is missing out. But it's nice to see that people are taking the effort to come in, like be it once a month or once in two months, to just regroup and then again part ways. Um, but that's great. Um, it's been a really, really great conversation with you, Desiree. Um, before you go off, I want to ask you as well. Like, this is the VFX Artist Podcast, and we want whoever's listening to go away with something new as well. So any book or any film podcast or something that you've come across recently that has made a good impression on you, which any artist who is listening can take away and you know use.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, I knew this was gonna come up, so I was thinking and thinking, and and like full transparency, I I did not know what to say. So yesterday I watched the first episode of the studio, thinking that I've heard so many things about it is at the Apple show, and everyone says it's so accurate. And I have to say, I mean, it is quite accurate, yes, and it it it's really well made. I would recommend it. It's not really it's not artists may not you know relate to it at all, but working at a studio, it's um I I mean it's very over the top, very extreme. It's it's like a parody, but I can see a lot of things actually happening in real life, and it's yeah. Really? It's not great, but it's very entertaining.
SPEAKER_03Okay, is it is it funny?
SPEAKER_00It is funny, yes, but it's pretty sad at the same time because you see where the film and TV industry is kind of you know the state of things.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, you said you like horror, so I'll won't reach my it's not horror at all, don't worry. Cool, cool. Um, all right. Um great De. This was such a such an informative and eye-opening session for me. I learned a lot myself, and I hope uh whoever's listening also. Where can where can our listeners find you if they wanted to connect with you? I think LinkedIn is the easiest, isn't it? I think that would be the best. Shoot me up. Okay, great, great. Uh, I will link your profile in the show notes. And uh uh thank you so much and have a lovely day and weekend. Great, thank you very much, and you are Pitta. Nice speaking to you. Bye.